Comments on: College Graduation Rates – Statistics Tell a Sad Tale

By: wayne

wayne — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:41:00 +0000

I have went to Boston public schools before, and now im at a 4 yr university. i’m turning 25, took a few yrs off after i got myAA, and i transferred to a 4 yr university last yr. I will get my BA this august.

the freshmens at my dorm, I can totally see why so many of them drop out. my school has a 72% retention rate for freshmens, so roughly 3 out of 10 will leave, and about a 47% grad rate after 6 years (21% after 4 yrs) . Lots of freshmens here expect to come here, have fun, party, get drunk, have the best times of their lives, and magically in 4 years, they and 100% of their friends will graduate, have a degree and make loads of money. it doesnt happen that way, so far after a quarter I have seen some dropped out, and some transferred.

as a 24 year old, i tell them to study, and tell them the facts about the 21% grad rate here in 4 years, literally only 2 out of 10 students will get a degree on time. ALL i repeat ALL of them tell me that this wont happen to them because they are smart, other people are stupid, and they just go on with partying and not studying, while I study and concentrate. its sad to see, but then again when I was 18 or 19 years old, I feel invincible too, nothing bad will happen to me, and dont take things as serious.

By: Susie Watts

Susie Watts — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:29:36 +0000

As a college consultant, I think this article is a real eye-opener. It is not that I was unaware of this information, it is how incredibly complicated it all is. I try to help students find colleges that are committed to seeing their students graduate in four years. To me this is a very important for families to consider when they are doing a college search. I know that many older students have full time jobs and family responsibilities, but for the typical 18-20 year old, this is not usually the case. There should be no excuses for them to drag out their college educations.

College Direction
Denver, Colorado

By: Maxene Brians

Maxene Brians — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 08:21:36 +0000

Finances, Race, Teachers, Poor Preparation, and student’s misconceptions of college are all fine and dandy reasons for dropping out of college, but there is something we’ve forgotten. I am a college student and I am making plans to drop out. I had a 4.6 GPA on the 5.0 scale at my high school. I took 9 Advanced Placement classes and passed them all with a 4 or 5. I was involved in clubs, and organizations. My mother and father both graduated from their colleges with masters’ degrees. I have straight A’s at my university. I am involved in multiple student organizations. I am also planning to drop out? Why? The answer is simple: I have not learned a thing at my $40,000 school after my freshman year other than my social security number. I was taught that people go to college to learn. If I have read all the books required in my English 101 class during my sophomore year of high school, why must I pay 5,000 dollars a class for that same education? If I’m supposed to waste another three years of my life for a glorified piece of paper know as a degree without any learning, or hard work behind it then I might as well work at McDonalds. At least I could learn how to cook and manage a small business. Parents pressure their kids into schools and go in debt for them saying they will never have a decent job unless they go to college. If that is how this business works I’m happy to boycott. When college can teach me more than I’ve taught myself I will be the first in line. I want to pay for an education, not a degree.

By: cesium

cesium — Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:24:52 +0000

@Tim: $50K/year is diddly-squat, AND there are literally millions of Indians with good english and math skills that would be happy to take that job for a lot less than $50K/year. Its a new age. The world is tightly integrated and will continue to rapidly become much more integrated. U.S. high school graduates are no longer competing with other U.S. high school graduates for jobs. They are competing against an international workforce willing to accept much lower wages. In order to provide Heather and others with high paying jobs, we need them to graduate from high school ready for college, and we need them to graduate from college with a diverse set of knowledge.

Yes, it’s unlikely we will ever get 100% of the population graduating in 4 years from college. But we damn well better get 80% of them graduating. Agriculture has been automated, and within 25 years, 1 generation, only 3% of the people will be able to work on their own farm. Manufacturing is being rapidly automated, and the coming generation is not going to move into manufacturing jobs. That leaves two kinds of jobs: local service jobs paying $25K/year (maid, mcdonalds, …), and knowledge jobs: searching for the next blockbuster drug, developing the next nano-material, programming computers, designing games, …

By: Heather Andrews

Heather Andrews — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 20:54:25 +0000

Dear Tim Mattingly – can you provide ME with a 50,000 a year job? That would be great! I sure can’t find one. And, I’m just about finished with my Bachelor’s degree. I am almost 39 years old. I am a single mother, and have worked my way through school while working full time and taking care of my daughter. I have decent math skills, excellent spelling and grammar skills, and I get paid less than most teenagers. Why am I losing out? What is going on? I have worked my butt off, and for what? No one even pays attention to me, nor do they take me seriously. There are people where I work, who are in very highly paid positions who call me for help ALL THE TIME, and do you know why? Because they can’t spell. They can’t find anything in our computer database, so they call ME. And I am one of the lowest paid people in the corporation. What am I missing? I feel like a complete joke. When will it be MY turn?

By: David H

David H — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:13:23 +0000

“If only our educational experts could grasp that our country needs skilled workers …”

This struck a chord in me as I recall one of the discussions I had with other college students and some doctorate holders socially, on the topic of Associate or Vocational education. In CA apparently there is either little or none. I remember at the time being struck by how much pressure that should have put on colleges to do skill based education, but as you point out they are businesses and research institutions primarily, and outside of engineering, some science, computer information services, or accounting degrees/certs I did not see evidence of skill teaching. Rather, an accumulation of GED courses and people memorizing answers to textbooks written by the professor teaching the class who does research at the University and hasn’t had to do a job search in several years.

To this one point I have experience: “That issue is then exacerbated by education officials who continue to insist that all we must do is simply raise standards further…”

The differences between education ‘levels’ in the requirements Universities have was a personal barrier to me. On the one hand I did graduate, but the requirements for graduating with a bachelors are not the requirements needed to continue my education – they are in fact much greater. These seems the delicate point you are seeking, lowered requirements to make the graduation rates increased, with raised requirements to progression in the chosen field of study reducing drop outs. Imagine my surprise when my naive sensibilities and trust in my personal ‘academic counselor’ had created a two year gap in my education needs for Ph.D or even Masters course work! In my case, and in my degree, the raised barriers have left me with 7 years of my life dedicated to the approach of higher education and only a B.D which is considered theoretical (Economics) to show for it. I wonder how generally that separation exists for other degrees?

Thank you for writing this article.

By: Travis

Travis — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:44:13 +0000

This: “Colleges and universities are businesses, and students are a cost item, while research is a profit center.”
Professors don’t care if a student gets it. I’ve had my fair share of craptacular professors who lack the patience or ability to teach. If you fail their course you’ll be back next semester $$ and if you don’t come back your socities problem not his.

By: Ashley Garner

Ashley Garner — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:00:28 +0000

I think that finances play a huge part in why people drop out of college. College is very stressful and if you have to deal with working a job outside of school and/or supporting children, then the load becomes too heavy and the only way to lighten it is to drop out of college because you can’t quit your job or your family!

By: Tim Mattingly

Tim Mattingly — Sat, 09 May 2009 14:25:29 +0000

Dear Mr. Thomas,

I just read your article, “Open Education, free education for all”. A friend of mine keeps telling me we need more money for colleges.

I employ 30 people with just 4 college graduates. We need more money spent at the high school and community college level. Give me a person who can read and write English with good math skills and I can provide him a $40,000 to $50,000 a year job.

While reading your article I realized that research should be separated from teaching. My son just graduated from CalTech with a degree in Physics. One-third of the professors are Nobel Prize winners and Caltech professors are required to teach. My son’s average class size was six students and always taught by a professsor.

I live in Houston, Texas and Texas has a good community college system. I have taught at the community college. My wife grew up in El Paso which is 90% Hispanic. We talk about education a lot and the biggest problem Texas has is the Hispanic community does not value education. Only 25% of the students who started high school with my wife graduated in El Paso. A few years ago we attended her 20 year high school reunion and the graduation rate is still 25%. The Federal, State and school district have spent millions on this school over the years without a significant increase in graduation rates. We toured the school and it was better than anything I or my kids ever attended.

I attended Catholic and public (government) schools. I look at the graduation rates of Catholic schools and how Catholic graduates perform in society. Maybe we should emulate the Catholic model. I will never forget a parent orientation meeting when my youngest son started attending Jesuit High School. The parents were given a two-page hand out. Father Zee, the principal, addressed the parents and said, “The Jesuits have been teaching for 500 years. We know what works, and we know what doesn’t work”. He held up his hand and said, ” the five fingers of knowledge are; theology, literature, math, science and history. As you move away from these, the value of education is diminished”.

A few weeks later I attended a parent orientation meeting for my other son who attended a public high school. We were given a fifty page hand out and the principal spent two hours telling us how the admisntration was complying with government rules and regulations.

Have a great and glorious day!

Tim Mattingly
Houston, TX